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[Music]

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good evening ladies and gentlemen

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welcome to the program I am your host

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Chris of Georgia Zuber and you have

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entered the den of lore pull up your

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chair grab a glass of scotch or whatever

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you're imbibing tonight and to the

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firing let's let's learn some cool

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tonight courtesy of a good friend and a

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scholar and author independent

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programmer as well as one of my mentors

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when it comes to parenthood Laird

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Scranton as we dissect and investigate

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the Ganesha the symbolism behind the

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great Hindu God from his work and a new

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book which is oh now I believe it's

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available on Amazon Kindle let me see if

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I could switch it over here to the main

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camera there we go you larrikin nope oh

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you know I turn the music off okay

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that's fine

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Laird if you can hold the book up again

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that'd be fantastic Ganesh show the

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scientific symbolism so we're gonna be

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talking about that first though I'd love

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you to be able to join us in on the new

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segment which is all about the news and

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again you can add your comment in or you

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know make fun of me for my choices of

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three topics for the morning or you know

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further for the evening so because I'm

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starting to write some jokes so what is

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sure to be hyped as the next big thing

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Apple uses to screw you out of your

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money for relatively craft products

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researchers have developed a graphene

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device that easily switches from a super

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conductive material that conducts

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electricity without losing any energy to

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an insular that resists the flow of

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electricity current and back all with

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the flip of a switch this could be a

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world-changing development for computer

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engineering where computers could be

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designed and built to not have internal

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resistance which means they can operate

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without consuming large amounts of power

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or generating heat which currently

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requires considerable cooling and as I

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have in my new rig a push-pull

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four hundred two hundred and eighty all

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in one cooler for this massive nine or

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eight core sixteen thread processor to

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keep it a nice toasty you know thirty

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degrees centigrade at all times it's it

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takes a lot of power it's did you know

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so at least didn't in your line of work

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Laird I'm sure that would probably be

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you know very welcome now go ahead boss

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well I was gonna say in a blow to a

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wackadoodle aunty do Pat anti-vaxxers

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like Jenna McCartney and a real and

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statistically powerful study on autism

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has confirmed that the disorder is

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strongly hereditary the analysis found

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that over eighty percent of autism risk

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is associated with inherited genetic

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factors a population-based multinational

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cohort study included in analytical

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sample of over 2.7 million individuals

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including full birth birth cohorts of

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children from Denmark Finland Sweden

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Israel and Western Australia born

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between January 1st 1998 and December

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31st 2011 and followed up to age 16 data

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was analyzed from September 23 2016

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through February 4th 2018 and based on

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population data from five countries the

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hereditary heredity hereditability of

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ASD was estimated to be approximately

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eighty percent indicating that the

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variation in ASD occurrence in the

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population is mostly owing to inherited

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genetic influences with no support or

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contribution from material effects so

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that I think is quite interesting and

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you know whether you have thoughts about

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it one way or another ladies and

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gentlemen you know numbers numbers they

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can lie but it's very interested at

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least it's something to consider

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and finally confirming what parents

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worldwide have known for decades

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it seems that much like kids ghost crabs

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will always pick fish fingers over

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vegetables it's just quite surprising

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it's true actually one of our most

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common Beach crabs eats just like a

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picky two-year-old according to a new

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research from Edith crown University

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researchers examined the diet of golden

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ghost crabs living on sandy beaches in

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Washington State's Midwest the ghost

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crabs diet is mainly made up of algae

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and other plant materials but the

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researchers found that when given the

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choice in a lab setting the crabs would

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opt always to eat for fish in fact

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during the lab tests the crab consumed

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55 times more fish than plant matter and

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17 times more fish than s-- then snails

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their second favorite food source on

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average of the crabs consumed fish at an

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impressive rate of seventeen point five

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two milligrams per hour per gram of body

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weight which is insane now that is

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basically the equivalent of 88 kilograms

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or an 88 kilogram human eating 1.4

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kilograms of fish every hour during the

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study period now there's no still word

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on yet as to whether the researchers

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will conduct a full up study on whether

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the crabs like two-year-olds also annoy

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the hell out of parents on airplanes so

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we are waiting for that next oh yeah I

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know that that's way up there but there

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there is supposed to be discontinued now

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yeah no they're gonna it's gonna come

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back

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so also again I've actually missed this

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part right here now if you like the show

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and you like to support independent

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broadcasting so what does a patreon.com

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forward slash then of lore for as little

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as a dollar a month you can ensure that

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this free show stays free of obnoxious

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ads besides this one randomly sprinkled

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throughout the program trying to sell

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you coffee or magic plates or whatever

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other you know hoodoo nonsense that

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people are trying to get you to buy

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nowadays on this type of program so you

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know you can go there a patron ah come

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forward slash denna flora support the

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show you get tons of perks to support

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just like a show at the top of the

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program which I kind of missed but you

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know there's the text is small and the

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monitor is far away and I forgot to make

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it larger so again a special shout-out

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to our den mother Ellen Pat from

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Brooklyn mrs. Fox and Shafa so again

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thank you very much for supporting the

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relaunch to relaunched relaunched den of

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lore and we're coming up on our fourth

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year thirty or fourth year fourth year

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almost I think maybe it's the third year

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it's a long time so and again we get to

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have individuals such as yourself

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layered back on the show and I was

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joking that you're kind of the measuring

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stick as to whether I can do a good show

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or not because if I can't get a good

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well I'm assuming that this is a family

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affair we don't we do we don't even

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really swear on this show anymore people

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so it's okay

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but you know if you would like me to

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take my shirt off go to dinner floor

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comm ford slash you know and donate and

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then hit that donate button and with a

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large enough of a mountain maybe it'll

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maybe it'll happen at least not on this

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one mom maybe find out so weird oh it's

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like a community radio telephones where

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it's like we're just gonna keep talking

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until you donate when you donate then

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we'll play a song it works and it's

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raised a lot of money for very good

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causes now speaking of a good cause you

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have been doing a fair amount of work

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with studying the cosmology of the Dogon

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and the dog on the Mowery now you have

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moved on to the connections with Hindu

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cosmology and I'm you know knowing that

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you just released this book I knew that

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I had to get you on because I know that

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it's gonna be a good show

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so how like first and foremost how would

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you decide to look into the you know

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Ganesha mythos and in cosmology what was

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actually oh sorry about that Laird I

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think I'm actually having a little of an

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issue on my end with your volume I'm

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hearing you but I'm not I'm not and it's

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not coming through so give me just one

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second here this is so ladies and

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gentlemen you were seeing on the fly

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that's why I'll show you audio capture

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and we're going to do Lance I'm trying

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to get the speakers out try one let's

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let's try that one how about now Larry

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can you can you can you

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I could hear you can you hear me I can

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hear you fine sorry about that ladies

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and gentlemen again there's we have that

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sorted out okay well I so are we ready

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to have a launch here we're ready to go

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okay well I was gonna say that during 60

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years of research between when the Dogon

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started being studied when I began

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looking into them not a single

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researcher to my knowledge had any sense

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of a connection to India from the Dogon

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I haven't seen it mention of it anywhere

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it's not an obvious connection however

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there are hints of it when you look at

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Dogon language the Dogon language has is

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unclassifiable Tecna technically because

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they preserves 17 subgroups of languages

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and they're very careful about keeping

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the words pure and at the meaning is

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pure and so forth that some of those

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words are tommy'll words which come out

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of India some of them are true arguably

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Turkish words some are ancient Egyptian

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words but the Tamil words suggested

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in some contact in the past with India

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but it's not until you get into

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comparative studies between cultures

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that you start to see that there are

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potential connections between the two it

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took a while team and even sort those

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out I bet I've been wanting to write

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this book about Ganesha for a long time

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this is a material that's very close to

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my heart

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recent I have always been very fond of

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Ganesha Ganesha is one of the most

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beloved Hindu deities celebrated by

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cultures all across India and Asia there

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are millions and millions of people in

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various forms with a wide variety of

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different kinds of mythology

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wide variance in the names that the that

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Ganesh is called a lot of difference in

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the way the Ganesh is represented in one

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one culture of Ganesha is even

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represented as having a human head not

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an elephant's head in one culture

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Ganesha has multiple heads but there's

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certain identifying characteristics

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language really is the first entry point

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that makes the connection for us there's

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a well-known Yale professor by the name

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of Phyllis Granoff who wrote a famous

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article about Ganesha I called Ganesha

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as metaphor and she was working from

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Sanskrit texts that have not been

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translated to my knowledge in English a

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text called the mudgala purana it's a

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text that's devoted specifically to

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Ganesha and Ganesha origins and she

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could see working with this text that

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when they were discussing eight

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incarnations of Ganesha she could see

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that those eight incarnations were being

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presented as if they were a progressive

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stages of creation

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but she didn't have a context in which

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to understand what they were talking

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about she could see that's what they

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00:13:16,050 --> 00:13:14,470
meant so she discusses them in her in

274
00:13:17,940 --> 00:13:16,060
her article and she presents a lot of

275
00:13:21,600 --> 00:13:17,950
the evidence as to Hawaii

276
00:13:22,290 --> 00:13:21,610
this is cosmological information but she

277
00:13:24,570 --> 00:13:22,300
doesn't really have a way of

278
00:13:27,750 --> 00:13:24,580
understanding what it is not part of the

279
00:13:29,310 --> 00:13:27,760
problem for scholars in India is that no

280
00:13:31,470 --> 00:13:29,320
matter what field of study you approach

281
00:13:35,100 --> 00:13:31,480
this material from whether it's art

282
00:13:37,170 --> 00:13:35,110
whether it's ancient texts that the

283
00:13:39,390 --> 00:13:37,180
material only goes back so far the art I

284
00:13:43,769 --> 00:13:39,400
think only goes back to around the early

285
00:13:46,670 --> 00:13:43,779
centuries ad and the texts go back as

286
00:13:50,310 --> 00:13:46,680
far as as the very late centuries BC and

287
00:13:53,550 --> 00:13:50,320
yet each researcher in his own contacts

288
00:13:55,170 --> 00:13:53,560
his or her own context is eventually

289
00:13:59,400 --> 00:13:55,180
comments well you know there are reasons

290
00:14:01,079 --> 00:13:59,410
why we understand that the material must

291
00:14:03,180 --> 00:14:01,089
be much older than that and just didn't

292
00:14:05,790 --> 00:14:03,190
survive because there are indications

293
00:14:09,930 --> 00:14:05,800
here that go way way way back that

294
00:14:12,150 --> 00:14:09,940
Ganesha was celebrated like tribal

295
00:14:15,390 --> 00:14:12,160
groups very far back in India's history

296
00:14:18,660 --> 00:14:15,400
no I know that the the common conception

297
00:14:23,820 --> 00:14:18,670
is that she had emerged as deity in

298
00:14:26,519 --> 00:14:23,830
around 200 BC or 2nd century BC so it

299
00:14:28,769 --> 00:14:26,529
you know if we're talking about you know

300
00:14:32,310 --> 00:14:28,779
deity that has been worshipped and

301
00:14:35,130 --> 00:14:32,320
venerated from ancient times that seems

302
00:14:36,510 --> 00:14:35,140
you know to your you know to your

303
00:14:38,370 --> 00:14:36,520
average think our average researcher

304
00:14:41,250 --> 00:14:38,380
that it's a little bit of a stretch can

305
00:14:44,120 --> 00:14:41,260
you speak to that well the the Dogon

306
00:14:48,329 --> 00:14:44,130
references are much older of course

307
00:14:53,910 --> 00:14:48,339
Ganesha as is this treated as the first

308
00:14:58,470 --> 00:14:53,920
son of sati or Parvati and Shiva who is

309
00:15:00,360 --> 00:14:58,480
the the male God but with very many of

310
00:15:03,090 --> 00:15:00,370
the same characteristics that Ganesha

311
00:15:06,570 --> 00:15:03,100
has but that material goes back as as we

312
00:15:11,070 --> 00:15:06,580
say to at best a few hundred years BC

313
00:15:13,770 --> 00:15:11,080
and the Dogon the trail picks up at

314
00:15:17,590 --> 00:15:13,780
around 3000 BC so we have three thousand

315
00:15:20,050 --> 00:15:17,600
year gap there in in information

316
00:15:22,080 --> 00:15:20,060
but framed in relation to many of the

317
00:15:25,930 --> 00:15:22,090
same phonetics and many of the same

318
00:15:27,160 --> 00:15:25,940
words but 3,000 years worth the time for

319
00:15:30,480 --> 00:15:27,170
the meanings of the words to have

320
00:15:33,850 --> 00:15:30,490
evolved and 3,000 years for the

321
00:15:36,610 --> 00:15:33,860
impression of the concepts to have

322
00:15:38,890 --> 00:15:36,620
changed at 3000 BC you have what looks

323
00:15:41,740 --> 00:15:38,900
like scientific descriptions you don't

324
00:15:43,840 --> 00:15:41,750
have anthropomorphize idiots

325
00:15:46,690 --> 00:15:43,850
particularly as a matter of fact with

326
00:15:48,460 --> 00:15:46,700
the Dogon we catch them in the very act

327
00:15:52,930 --> 00:15:48,470
of anthropomorphizing a cosmological

328
00:15:55,660 --> 00:15:52,940
concept with one of their diagrams that

329
00:15:57,190 --> 00:15:55,670
directly relates to Ganesha okay would

330
00:15:59,230 --> 00:15:57,200
you able to explain this a little a

331
00:16:04,090 --> 00:15:59,240
little in depth and in terms of how they

332
00:16:10,210 --> 00:16:04,100
were able to do that okay the that the

333
00:16:12,730 --> 00:16:10,220
Dogon they discuss concepts of creation

334
00:16:16,030 --> 00:16:12,740
and they associate them with drawings

335
00:16:17,860 --> 00:16:16,040
that are used to illustrate them and so

336
00:16:20,320 --> 00:16:17,870
one of the keys they're talking about

337
00:16:23,710 --> 00:16:20,330
how how particles of matter form from

338
00:16:26,230 --> 00:16:23,720
waves and they understand that matter

339
00:16:28,150 --> 00:16:26,240
begins as waves and they understand that

340
00:16:31,030 --> 00:16:28,160
it ends up like an atom and in between

341
00:16:33,040 --> 00:16:31,040
there are some significant stages and

342
00:16:37,420 --> 00:16:33,050
structures that they define and the

343
00:16:41,620 --> 00:16:37,430
first coherent structure is called the

344
00:16:43,630 --> 00:16:41,630
Popeil ooh it's represents a spiral of

345
00:16:46,630 --> 00:16:43,640
matter that supposedly exists in every

346
00:16:48,460 --> 00:16:46,640
point in space and time and that spiral

347
00:16:50,490 --> 00:16:48,470
of matter can be looked at a couple of

348
00:16:53,110 --> 00:16:50,500
different ways and these are really

349
00:16:55,540 --> 00:16:53,120
they're indications that these are our

350
00:16:57,940 --> 00:16:55,550
dimensional views from some points they

351
00:17:03,190 --> 00:16:57,950
are geometric views from one point of

352
00:17:06,699 --> 00:17:03,200
view so the structure has eight stages

353
00:17:09,250 --> 00:17:06,709
to it seven physical stages and one

354
00:17:13,090 --> 00:17:09,260
conceptual one and one way the Dogon

355
00:17:15,660 --> 00:17:13,100
represented is as seven rays of a star

356
00:17:18,550 --> 00:17:15,670
that are emitted from a single point

357
00:17:20,829 --> 00:17:18,560
these are rays of increasing length and

358
00:17:24,850 --> 00:17:20,839
so you end up with what looked like

359
00:17:27,130 --> 00:17:24,860
little line lines of rays of light

360
00:17:30,270 --> 00:17:27,140
coming out of a central point that

361
00:17:32,700 --> 00:17:30,280
because they get longer as they emerge

362
00:17:35,160 --> 00:17:32,710
you can draw you can describe a spiral

363
00:17:36,020 --> 00:17:35,170
around them a Fibonacci spiral around

364
00:17:39,780 --> 00:17:36,030
them hmm

365
00:17:42,600 --> 00:17:39,790
okay they refer to the structure as the

366
00:17:45,300 --> 00:17:42,610
Popol ooh which also means the egg of

367
00:17:48,810 --> 00:17:45,310
the world or you can think of it as the

368
00:17:51,300 --> 00:17:48,820
spiral of the world now those rays those

369
00:17:52,830 --> 00:17:51,310
seven rays there's another little game

370
00:17:55,740 --> 00:17:52,840
they like to play with those seven rays

371
00:18:00,000 --> 00:17:55,750
they like to make a little stick figure

372
00:18:02,940 --> 00:18:00,010
out of it they take the top two rays and

373
00:18:05,280 --> 00:18:02,950
make them into a head and then depending

374
00:18:07,560 --> 00:18:05,290
on one of two views they either then

375
00:18:10,350 --> 00:18:07,570
make the next two rays in the arms the

376
00:18:13,890 --> 00:18:10,360
next two rays in two legs and the last

377
00:18:16,740 --> 00:18:13,900
ray into a single task or what they it

378
00:18:19,260 --> 00:18:16,750
can be referred to as the sex of the the

379
00:18:23,010 --> 00:18:19,270
Popeil ooh but the word for sex also

380
00:18:26,760 --> 00:18:23,020
could mean tusks the second way the

381
00:18:29,580 --> 00:18:26,770
anthropomorphize it is with to raise as

382
00:18:33,030 --> 00:18:29,590
a head the next four raised as arms and

383
00:18:38,060 --> 00:18:33,040
the last ray a leg that that figure is

384
00:18:42,840 --> 00:18:40,020
quintessential representations of

385
00:18:46,200 --> 00:18:42,850
Ganesha in India in art he's represented

386
00:18:48,510 --> 00:18:46,210
primarily in two ways one is where as to

387
00:18:50,730 --> 00:18:48,520
armed with a single tusks and the other

388
00:18:52,350 --> 00:18:50,740
one is I mean as as to armed with a

389
00:18:57,630 --> 00:18:52,360
single task and the other one is s4 I'm

390
00:18:59,610 --> 00:18:57,640
dancing on one leg now so that's that's

391
00:19:02,040 --> 00:18:59,620
very suggestive from the outside just

392
00:19:04,830 --> 00:19:02,050
realizing a bit that they've somehow

393
00:19:08,480 --> 00:19:04,840
coincidentally match these two poses is

394
00:19:11,280 --> 00:19:08,490
very suggestive turns out the word P Liu

395
00:19:14,970 --> 00:19:11,290
has significance in various ancient

396
00:19:18,350 --> 00:19:14,980
languages it's in Turkish and in the

397
00:19:21,780 --> 00:19:18,360
Tamiya language in in other languages

398
00:19:25,530 --> 00:19:21,790
Pele can refer to the concept of an

399
00:19:27,870 --> 00:19:25,540
elephant the concept of a task it can

400
00:19:29,730 --> 00:19:27,880
refer to the color color white it can

401
00:19:33,770 --> 00:19:29,740
refer to the concept of a Sun these are

402
00:19:38,240 --> 00:19:33,780
all icon iconic attributes of cognition

403
00:19:42,060 --> 00:19:38,250
so now we have the two poses

404
00:19:43,890 --> 00:19:42,070
corresponding to a name Popeil ooh that

405
00:19:45,810 --> 00:19:43,900
links to all these attributes of Ganesh

406
00:19:49,290 --> 00:19:45,820
- it's more than coincidental I was

407
00:19:51,420 --> 00:19:49,300
taught by by my science teachers that

408
00:19:54,180 --> 00:19:51,430
when you bump up against the first

409
00:19:55,650 --> 00:19:54,190
coincidence it's time to start

410
00:19:58,980 --> 00:19:55,660
considering whether there's something

411
00:20:01,020 --> 00:19:58,990
going on besides coincidence that a

412
00:20:02,760 --> 00:20:01,030
coincidence is supposed to be taken as a

413
00:20:05,100 --> 00:20:02,770
thing you know one in a thousand chance

414
00:20:08,100 --> 00:20:05,110
that that two things could align with

415
00:20:10,140 --> 00:20:08,110
each other when you start getting into

416
00:20:12,299 --> 00:20:10,150
two and three coincidences you've pushed

417
00:20:14,370 --> 00:20:12,309
it beyond the point where a reasonable

418
00:20:15,870 --> 00:20:14,380
person should should believe in it's

419
00:20:17,490 --> 00:20:15,880
coincidence anymore if you have that

420
00:20:20,990 --> 00:20:17,500
much tolerance for coincidence

421
00:20:24,330 --> 00:20:21,000
you don't have a scientific mindset now

422
00:20:27,360 --> 00:20:24,340
Ganesha has close to 32 forms from

423
00:20:29,790 --> 00:20:27,370
actually 32 forms so if if we're only

424
00:20:31,620 --> 00:20:29,800
talking about one particular form you

425
00:20:34,799 --> 00:20:31,630
know that could be conceived as a little

426
00:20:39,299 --> 00:20:34,809
bit of a coincidence but how does it

427
00:20:43,350 --> 00:20:39,309
match up against 30 - well over 3,000

428
00:20:47,700 --> 00:20:43,360
years and seeing how India India's

429
00:20:51,240 --> 00:20:47,710
culture loved to play with a

430
00:20:54,810 --> 00:20:51,250
representation of things it's a the the

431
00:20:56,970 --> 00:20:54,820
audience for cosmology in India wasn't

432
00:20:59,220 --> 00:20:56,980
satisfied with just a description of

433
00:21:00,840 --> 00:20:59,230
something if there was any nuance to

434
00:21:03,900 --> 00:21:00,850
that description at all they'd want to

435
00:21:06,540 --> 00:21:03,910
know why how come how come Ganesha has

436
00:21:11,610 --> 00:21:06,550
an elephant's head how did that happen

437
00:21:13,410 --> 00:21:11,620
how come Sheba is it is said to have

438
00:21:15,090 --> 00:21:13,420
beheaded him

439
00:21:16,200 --> 00:21:15,100
how come Shiva wasn't there when he was

440
00:21:21,169 --> 00:21:16,210
born how could she would not know

441
00:21:24,600 --> 00:21:21,179
Ganesha was the son of sati or Parvati

442
00:21:26,040 --> 00:21:24,610
so every time the audience would ask one

443
00:21:29,790 --> 00:21:26,050
of those questions you'd see another

444
00:21:32,940 --> 00:21:29,800
mythic form mythical storyline of a myth

445
00:21:36,090 --> 00:21:32,950
pop up whose purpose seemed to be to

446
00:21:38,250 --> 00:21:36,100
explain in that next question and so

447
00:21:43,169 --> 00:21:38,260
it's easy to imagine over time how what

448
00:21:48,210 --> 00:21:43,179
began as to descriptive poses ended up

449
00:21:50,430 --> 00:21:48,220
as 30 or more descriptive poses and even

450
00:21:51,870 --> 00:21:50,440
more if you consider what artists will

451
00:21:56,000 --> 00:21:51,880
tend to do with the figure even in terms

452
00:22:01,190 --> 00:21:57,740
any popular figure in modern art that's

453
00:22:02,750 --> 00:22:01,200
been around for 2,000 years you see how

454
00:22:04,190 --> 00:22:02,760
many different presentations there are

455
00:22:06,410 --> 00:22:04,200
of the same thing that have evolved over

456
00:22:08,960 --> 00:22:06,420
time you can't imagine that all of those

457
00:22:11,300 --> 00:22:08,970
were original so part of what we're

458
00:22:13,430 --> 00:22:11,310
trying to do is arrive at original forms

459
00:22:16,430 --> 00:22:13,440
and the Dogon are our next excellent

460
00:22:20,150 --> 00:22:16,440
place to do that because the Dogon as a

461
00:22:22,430 --> 00:22:20,160
culture prioritize the preservation of

462
00:22:28,070 --> 00:22:22,440
original forms with everything with

463
00:22:31,810 --> 00:22:28,080
language with word meanings with myths

464
00:22:34,550 --> 00:22:31,820
myths storylines of myths with diagrams

465
00:22:36,710 --> 00:22:34,560
that go along with their cosmology even

466
00:22:39,020 --> 00:22:36,720
with their civic practices you can

467
00:22:41,030 --> 00:22:39,030
predict what ancient Egyptians were

468
00:22:44,690 --> 00:22:41,040
doing at 3,000 BC if you know what the

469
00:22:47,000 --> 00:22:44,700
Dogon are doing now there's a predictive

470
00:22:48,500 --> 00:22:47,010
element there I have a high degree of

471
00:22:50,480 --> 00:22:48,510
confidence that anything the element

472
00:22:52,430 --> 00:22:50,490
that the Dogon are doing today

473
00:22:54,380 --> 00:22:52,440
will be able to find produce evidence

474
00:23:00,630 --> 00:22:54,390
that the ancient Egyptians did it at

475
00:23:06,159 --> 00:23:04,390
Comparative cosmology and you know if

476
00:23:10,120 --> 00:23:06,169
you you had mentioned that there were

477
00:23:11,860 --> 00:23:10,130
multiple you know crosses or or

478
00:23:16,000 --> 00:23:11,870
references that could be attributed back

479
00:23:17,620 --> 00:23:16,010
from the Arkin ography of Ganesha to the

480
00:23:19,360 --> 00:23:17,630
Dogon what are some of the other ones

481
00:23:24,310 --> 00:23:19,370
that that that you were found within

482
00:23:28,810 --> 00:23:24,320
your studies that many of the Dogon

483
00:23:34,270 --> 00:23:28,820
words let's back us up a little bit okay

484
00:23:39,870 --> 00:23:34,280
we see in Hinduism we see deities

485
00:23:43,149 --> 00:23:39,880
presented in relation to dual phonetics

486
00:23:46,000 --> 00:23:43,159
Ganesha's mother's name is sati these

487
00:23:48,100 --> 00:23:46,010
are in English two letter syllables that

488
00:23:50,950 --> 00:23:48,110
are combined together and the Dogon

489
00:23:52,779 --> 00:23:50,960
language preserves those original

490
00:23:54,010 --> 00:23:52,789
syllables and provides us with clear

491
00:23:58,690 --> 00:23:54,020
definitions of what each of those

492
00:24:00,490 --> 00:23:58,700
syllables means it's also true that many

493
00:24:03,820 --> 00:24:00,500
of the ancient Egyptian words are built

494
00:24:06,730 --> 00:24:03,830
on the same phonetics many of the Dogon

495
00:24:08,409 --> 00:24:06,740
words I mean also predictably many of

496
00:24:10,000 --> 00:24:08,419
the Dogon cosmological words you can go

497
00:24:12,220 --> 00:24:10,010
to an Egyptian hieroglyphic dictionary

498
00:24:14,080 --> 00:24:12,230
and find the same cluster of meanings

499
00:24:15,610 --> 00:24:14,090
that go with the Dogon word in the

500
00:24:19,720 --> 00:24:15,620
Egyptian hieroglyphic dictionary under

501
00:24:22,930 --> 00:24:19,730
the same phonetics the particular form

502
00:24:27,070 --> 00:24:22,940
the Duggan's phonetics are in happen to

503
00:24:29,350 --> 00:24:27,080
be sort of root building blocks in Maori

504
00:24:31,149 --> 00:24:29,360
language in New Zealand looking at the

505
00:24:33,399 --> 00:24:31,159
Maori dictionary I can predict what a

506
00:24:35,590 --> 00:24:33,409
Maori word is going to represent based

507
00:24:37,210 --> 00:24:35,600
on its phonetics because it's made it's

508
00:24:40,990 --> 00:24:37,220
constructed from the same building

509
00:24:43,419 --> 00:24:41,000
blocks I know that the phonetic saw

510
00:24:44,830 --> 00:24:43,429
refers to knowledge and there are

511
00:24:46,330 --> 00:24:44,840
multiple meanings that can go with these

512
00:24:50,020 --> 00:24:46,340
phonetics they also have clusters of

513
00:24:52,539 --> 00:24:50,030
meanings but the phonetics define root

514
00:24:55,659 --> 00:24:52,549
concepts and so when you put the

515
00:24:57,460 --> 00:24:55,669
phonetics together you can use them as

516
00:25:02,080 --> 00:24:57,470
building blocks to construct the meaning

517
00:25:03,669 --> 00:25:02,090
of a more complicated word now if the if

518
00:25:06,909 --> 00:25:03,679
these words had been originated with in

519
00:25:09,130 --> 00:25:06,919
3000 BC obviously human migration can be

520
00:25:12,580 --> 00:25:09,140
done fairly quickly I think I once

521
00:25:13,250 --> 00:25:12,590
calculated you could walk from Cairo if

522
00:25:17,930 --> 00:25:13,260
I figured it was

523
00:25:20,630 --> 00:25:17,940
was Cairo too uh was it like Cairo to

524
00:25:22,580 --> 00:25:20,640
Spain and it would take you like

525
00:25:25,910 --> 00:25:22,590
something stupid like 25 hours maybe

526
00:25:28,400 --> 00:25:25,920
baby was Cairo to to Jerusalem and it

527
00:25:29,660 --> 00:25:28,410
was like a 25 hour walk or light not 25

528
00:25:32,510 --> 00:25:29,670
hour walk but it you know it would take

529
00:25:34,310 --> 00:25:32,520
you about like 25 days instead of like

530
00:25:35,990 --> 00:25:34,320
you know going around in circles for 40

531
00:25:37,880 --> 00:25:36,000
years it's it's a very very short

532
00:25:42,500 --> 00:25:37,890
distance all right

533
00:25:45,530 --> 00:25:42,510
so how how did these Dogon terms like

534
00:25:47,600 --> 00:25:45,540
what is the the progression from the

535
00:25:50,480 --> 00:25:47,610
middle of Africa sub sub sub Saharan

536
00:25:53,780 --> 00:25:50,490
Africa to the the subcontinent

537
00:25:57,970 --> 00:25:53,790
it seems that there you know there may

538
00:26:00,560 --> 00:25:57,980
have been an ample opportunity for

539
00:26:02,600 --> 00:26:00,570
exchange of ideas especially with the

540
00:26:07,310 --> 00:26:02,610
Indus Valley having a tremendous amount

541
00:26:09,890 --> 00:26:07,320
of influence with trade in Mesopotamia

542
00:26:13,520 --> 00:26:09,900
during meal 6000 BC and up until its

543
00:26:15,920 --> 00:26:13,530
disappearance how you know were these

544
00:26:18,770 --> 00:26:15,930
concepts gradual over time or did they

545
00:26:20,780 --> 00:26:18,780
appear originally within the

546
00:26:24,310 --> 00:26:20,790
subcontinent at about the same time as

547
00:26:27,020 --> 00:26:24,320
with the Dogon from my point of view

548
00:26:29,510 --> 00:26:27,030
that I'm tracking the cosmological

549
00:26:32,690 --> 00:26:29,520
tradition which is a symbolic tradition

550
00:26:34,730 --> 00:26:32,700
but it's associated with civilizing

551
00:26:39,980 --> 00:26:34,740
skills it's associated with agriculture

552
00:26:43,340 --> 00:26:39,990
with stone masonry metallurgy animal

553
00:26:44,960 --> 00:26:43,350
husbandry pottery there's a whole

554
00:26:47,390 --> 00:26:44,970
cluster of skills that make their first

555
00:26:50,560 --> 00:26:47,400
appearance in the region of Gobekli Tepe

556
00:26:54,770 --> 00:26:50,570
and in the Fertile Crescent at around

557
00:26:56,830 --> 00:26:54,780
9,000 BC and they migrate outward from

558
00:26:59,180 --> 00:26:56,840
there sort of radially you can try

559
00:27:02,270 --> 00:26:59,190
researchers have tracked them following

560
00:27:04,310 --> 00:27:02,280
DNA following language following

561
00:27:07,640 --> 00:27:04,320
civilizing skills they can demonstrate

562
00:27:09,020 --> 00:27:07,650
what directions they moved in and how

563
00:27:11,870 --> 00:27:09,030
quickly they arrived at certain places

564
00:27:15,590 --> 00:27:11,880
they move by one path transmission they

565
00:27:19,310 --> 00:27:15,600
move south and eastward down through

566
00:27:23,210 --> 00:27:19,320
what became India as far as as far south

567
00:27:26,390 --> 00:27:23,220
and east as Australia actually that's

568
00:27:30,590 --> 00:27:26,400
one path of transmission another path of

569
00:27:35,450 --> 00:27:30,600
mission flows down from turkey into the

570
00:27:40,310 --> 00:27:35,460
region of Palestine and then seems to

571
00:27:43,720 --> 00:27:40,320
make a jump by sea hmm from Palestine to

572
00:27:47,930 --> 00:27:43,730
the tip of northern Africa and on to

573
00:27:49,700 --> 00:27:47,940
northern Scotland there are other stops

574
00:27:51,170 --> 00:27:49,710
in between actually this would be the

575
00:27:55,010 --> 00:27:51,180
subject matter of a book I'm presently

576
00:27:57,530 --> 00:27:55,020
working on is tracking precisely how it

577
00:28:00,730 --> 00:27:57,540
got from the Fertile Crescent region to

578
00:28:03,620 --> 00:28:00,740
Orkney and with what stops in between

579
00:28:04,880 --> 00:28:03,630
and in our past interviews and you can

580
00:28:06,260 --> 00:28:04,890
go check those out on our YouTube

581
00:28:09,110 --> 00:28:06,270
channel and fairly certainly I still

582
00:28:13,190 --> 00:28:09,120
have them up we had discussed a

583
00:28:15,620 --> 00:28:13,200
considerable amount of the the teaching

584
00:28:18,760 --> 00:28:15,630
methods or at least the theorized

585
00:28:21,020 --> 00:28:18,770
teaching methods that were used within

586
00:28:22,430 --> 00:28:21,030
certain cultures or certain groups that

587
00:28:23,630 --> 00:28:22,440
were brought to a certain location and

588
00:28:27,140 --> 00:28:23,640
then basically toughts

589
00:28:28,430 --> 00:28:27,150
you know all the things I talked about

590
00:28:29,830 --> 00:28:28,440
right exactly all those things you

591
00:28:33,740 --> 00:28:29,840
talked about so it's primarily

592
00:28:35,810 --> 00:28:33,750
agriculture and symbolic cosmology so it

593
00:28:40,720 --> 00:28:35,820
is that is there something very similar

594
00:28:45,410 --> 00:28:43,790
yes it is an extension of a Treaty of

595
00:28:49,730 --> 00:28:45,420
the tradition that began a gobekli tepe

596
00:28:51,410 --> 00:28:49,740
it was carried into India by way of the

597
00:28:53,480 --> 00:28:51,420
of a group called the Shakti cult which

598
00:28:55,880 --> 00:28:53,490
is a make matriarchal called an archaic

599
00:29:00,650 --> 00:28:55,890
called that still exists actually they

600
00:29:03,680 --> 00:29:00,660
they have a center of worship in on the

601
00:29:08,380 --> 00:29:03,690
sort of the east flank of the peninsula

602
00:29:13,910 --> 00:29:08,390
of India in a region called Orissa who

603
00:29:16,100 --> 00:29:13,920
now they also celebrate Ganesha but from

604
00:29:18,920 --> 00:29:16,110
their perspective Ganesha was the son of

605
00:29:23,690 --> 00:29:18,930
two mothers there are two mother

606
00:29:25,910 --> 00:29:23,700
goddesses who are explicitly claimed to

607
00:29:27,860 --> 00:29:25,920
have been the mothers tomb of the two

608
00:29:31,360 --> 00:29:27,870
mothers of Ganesha in Dogon tradition

609
00:29:33,000 --> 00:29:31,370
the Dogon say that if it were possible

610
00:29:35,039 --> 00:29:33,010
[Music]

611
00:29:36,740 --> 00:29:35,049
to take the DNA from two women and

612
00:29:41,700 --> 00:29:36,750
combine it you would create the perfect

613
00:29:43,380 --> 00:29:41,710
being that to their mode of thinking the

614
00:29:46,950 --> 00:29:43,390
perfect transmission of DNA would be

615
00:29:52,320 --> 00:29:46,960
from two mothers not from a mother and a

616
00:29:54,510 --> 00:29:52,330
father and how were they well is there a

617
00:29:56,760 --> 00:29:54,520
certain basis that they ascribe to this

618
00:30:02,909 --> 00:29:56,770
is there certain traits that they

619
00:30:05,250 --> 00:30:02,919
believe would lead to this they don't

620
00:30:07,350 --> 00:30:05,260
really explain the details of that they

621
00:30:09,930 --> 00:30:07,360
just make this statement that the

622
00:30:11,430 --> 00:30:09,940
observation that by the way if you could

623
00:30:14,460 --> 00:30:11,440
do that you'd produce the perfect being

624
00:30:17,299 --> 00:30:14,470
well we might see that as a carryover of

625
00:30:19,590 --> 00:30:17,309
the tradition from the Shakti cult where

626
00:30:21,810 --> 00:30:19,600
Ganesha has pretty much treated as the

627
00:30:26,190 --> 00:30:21,820
perfect being and he is in their

628
00:30:28,500 --> 00:30:26,200
estimation the son of two mothers in the

629
00:30:30,780 --> 00:30:28,510
Shakti cult the two goddesses are

630
00:30:37,350 --> 00:30:30,790
invariably pictured in the present in

631
00:30:39,919 --> 00:30:37,360
the in the company of Ganesha now the

632
00:30:42,299 --> 00:30:39,929
names of the the Hindu deities are

633
00:30:43,770 --> 00:30:42,309
formed to go back to language or form

634
00:30:45,180 --> 00:30:43,780
from the building blocks which I was

635
00:30:48,900 --> 00:30:45,190
talking about the phonetic building

636
00:30:50,940 --> 00:30:48,910
blocks that the Dogon preserve and from

637
00:30:56,980 --> 00:30:50,950
my perspective the Dogon preserve

638
00:30:58,570 --> 00:30:56,990
original meanings for those fanatics so

639
00:31:00,700 --> 00:30:58,580
when we start looking at attributes of

640
00:31:03,460 --> 00:31:00,710
Ganesha or our attributes of Ganesha's

641
00:31:07,750 --> 00:31:03,470
origins story that relate to those kinds

642
00:31:10,840 --> 00:31:07,760
of phonetics India has its take on what

643
00:31:13,090 --> 00:31:10,850
the word means but the word can also be

644
00:31:14,889 --> 00:31:13,100
examined in terms of what the the

645
00:31:17,590 --> 00:31:14,899
phonetic roots the Dogon phonetic roots

646
00:31:20,409 --> 00:31:17,600
represented to me so it's interesting

647
00:31:22,779 --> 00:31:20,419
that in India one of the names for

648
00:31:25,269 --> 00:31:22,789
Ganesha is Ganapati that's actually his

649
00:31:27,310 --> 00:31:25,279
alternate name in India he's known as as

650
00:31:28,950 --> 00:31:27,320
well as often by Ganapati as by a

651
00:31:34,060 --> 00:31:28,960
Ganesha

652
00:31:35,860 --> 00:31:34,070
Ganapati in sanskrit refers to the

653
00:31:37,930 --> 00:31:35,870
concept of the lord of the ganas that's

654
00:31:40,990 --> 00:31:37,940
the way it's interpreted with the gana

655
00:31:44,500 --> 00:31:41,000
as being an obscure concept it has its

656
00:31:46,539 --> 00:31:44,510
own detailed explanations for the Dogon

657
00:31:48,100 --> 00:31:46,549
if we trace back to this figure the

658
00:31:50,200 --> 00:31:48,110
Popey knew that I'm talking about which

659
00:31:54,000 --> 00:31:50,210
is the spiral of the world or the egg of

660
00:31:56,610 --> 00:31:54,010
the world the word gana means world and

661
00:32:00,490 --> 00:31:56,620
the word and the phonetic value PHA

662
00:32:01,960 --> 00:32:00,500
refers to the concept of rotating and

663
00:32:06,820 --> 00:32:01,970
extending which is the definition of a

664
00:32:09,399 --> 00:32:06,830
spiral so Ganapati in Dogon in terms of

665
00:32:13,779 --> 00:32:09,409
Dogon phonetics refers to the one of the

666
00:32:16,060 --> 00:32:13,789
world spiral in other words if we

667
00:32:18,159 --> 00:32:16,070
examine the Indian word in terms of the

668
00:32:20,220 --> 00:32:18,169
Dogon roots we hit precisely the Dogon

669
00:32:22,269 --> 00:32:20,230
definition of what the thing represents

670
00:32:24,210 --> 00:32:22,279
which is kind of mind-blowing if you

671
00:32:26,889 --> 00:32:24,220
think about it and that goes to the

672
00:32:28,600 --> 00:32:26,899
concept of well if you run into more

673
00:32:30,639 --> 00:32:28,610
than one coincidence and you have to

674
00:32:33,970 --> 00:32:30,649
start thinking about what that actually

675
00:32:38,110 --> 00:32:33,980
means right at some point of the process

676
00:32:40,180 --> 00:32:38,120
you have to sincerely consider is there

677
00:32:41,350 --> 00:32:40,190
linkage here and then start to pursue it

678
00:32:43,149 --> 00:32:41,360
and test it and see what are the

679
00:32:45,039 --> 00:32:43,159
boundaries of those of the

680
00:32:47,110 --> 00:32:45,049
correspondence between the two what I've

681
00:32:50,340 --> 00:32:47,120
discovered is there's pretty much

682
00:32:53,169 --> 00:32:50,350
complete correspondence here that that

683
00:32:56,830 --> 00:32:53,179
the symbolism that survives in India for

684
00:32:59,200 --> 00:32:56,840
Ganesha goes quite well hand in hand

685
00:33:01,570 --> 00:32:59,210
with the scientifically based symbolism

686
00:33:06,430 --> 00:33:01,580
that the Dogon represent that there are

687
00:33:10,750 --> 00:33:06,440
root concepts of energy that pertain to

688
00:33:13,659 --> 00:33:10,760
Ganesha and part of the process of

689
00:33:17,170 --> 00:33:13,669
sorting that out is understanding how

690
00:33:18,940 --> 00:33:17,180
how this very well it's

691
00:33:22,170 --> 00:33:18,950
to explain but in the end it's a very

692
00:33:26,160 --> 00:33:22,180
simple set of dynamics of how energy

693
00:33:29,110 --> 00:33:26,170
moves from the domain of wave-like

694
00:33:31,360 --> 00:33:29,120
existence to the domain of particle like

695
00:33:33,400 --> 00:33:31,370
existence that was the subject of my

696
00:33:37,540 --> 00:33:33,410
book seek from the primordial which is

697
00:33:39,130 --> 00:33:37,550
the previous selfish book trying to get

698
00:33:42,130 --> 00:33:39,140
down to the roots of what those that

699
00:33:45,240 --> 00:33:42,140
energy was well the Dogon say with their

700
00:33:47,530 --> 00:33:45,250
diagrams they begin their process begins

701
00:33:50,920 --> 00:33:47,540
one of the first one of the first major

702
00:33:52,180 --> 00:33:50,930
forms is a circle with the dot in the

703
00:33:56,490 --> 00:33:52,190
middle of it sort of that's the

704
00:33:59,260 --> 00:33:56,500
equivalent of the Egyptian Sun glyph and

705
00:34:01,450 --> 00:33:59,270
the Dogon refer to it as the egg and a

706
00:34:04,630 --> 00:34:01,460
ball the dot is the egg and the circle

707
00:34:06,940 --> 00:34:04,640
around it is the ball but what it

708
00:34:09,040 --> 00:34:06,950
actually represents when you get in into

709
00:34:10,570 --> 00:34:09,050
the detail descriptions that they don't

710
00:34:13,150 --> 00:34:10,580
give and what they're talking about how

711
00:34:15,850 --> 00:34:13,160
energy works you realize what it

712
00:34:19,060 --> 00:34:15,860
represents is the concept of angular

713
00:34:20,680 --> 00:34:19,070
momentum which is a concept of physics

714
00:34:24,390 --> 00:34:20,690
that pertains to spinning energy

715
00:34:30,250 --> 00:34:28,480
the way an astrophysicist diagrams an

716
00:34:32,740 --> 00:34:30,260
angular momentum is as a circuit as a

717
00:34:38,490 --> 00:34:32,750
circle with a sinner a circle with a dot

718
00:34:43,930 --> 00:34:41,590
starting at that point we then try to

719
00:34:45,700 --> 00:34:43,940
connect the the dots to the next Dogon

720
00:34:48,250 --> 00:34:45,710
figure the next conceptual figure for

721
00:34:52,090 --> 00:34:48,260
the Dogon is the spiral I was talking

722
00:34:54,280 --> 00:34:52,100
about which has the seven rays that can

723
00:34:58,210 --> 00:34:54,290
be conceptualized either as a spiral or

724
00:35:01,030 --> 00:34:58,220
as seven rays of a star there's an eight

725
00:35:04,750 --> 00:35:01,040
conceptual stage where the the longest

726
00:35:06,160 --> 00:35:04,760
rays ray of the star Pierce's an egg the

727
00:35:08,890 --> 00:35:06,170
shell of an egg that surrounds that

728
00:35:09,700 --> 00:35:08,900
spiral or those rays and when it

729
00:35:12,670 --> 00:35:09,710
Pierce's it

730
00:35:15,070 --> 00:35:12,680
that's the conceptual end of the first

731
00:35:17,530 --> 00:35:15,080
egg and it's the initiating point of the

732
00:35:19,330 --> 00:35:17,540
next egg and these eggs supposedly exist

733
00:35:22,660 --> 00:35:19,340
at every point in space and time this is

734
00:35:24,700 --> 00:35:22,670
how how what matter is based on

735
00:35:26,740 --> 00:35:24,710
well when we look into the concept of

736
00:35:30,039 --> 00:35:26,750
angular momentum from the standpoint of

737
00:35:35,349 --> 00:35:30,049
science the spinning energy we discover

738
00:35:38,109 --> 00:35:35,359
that spinning energy evokes a series of

739
00:35:40,000 --> 00:35:38,119
seven vectors in a plane that sits

740
00:35:41,769 --> 00:35:40,010
perpendicular to the spinning energy so

741
00:35:43,900 --> 00:35:41,779
if you may imagine a circle with a dot

742
00:35:47,789 --> 00:35:43,910
in the middle of it and the circle is

743
00:35:54,640 --> 00:35:51,730
suddenly that evokes what in fact are

744
00:35:56,259 --> 00:35:54,650
rays of light or rays of energy that are

745
00:35:58,509 --> 00:35:56,269
in a plan that sits perpendicular to

746
00:36:00,160 --> 00:35:58,519
that spinning energy seven rays that

747
00:36:03,039 --> 00:36:00,170
increase in length this time goes on the

748
00:36:06,309 --> 00:36:03,049
reason they increase is because as the

749
00:36:08,829 --> 00:36:06,319
energy is spinning it attains mass

750
00:36:11,829 --> 00:36:08,839
Einstein says that if you accelerate

751
00:36:15,039 --> 00:36:11,839
energy it becomes more massive as it

752
00:36:19,529 --> 00:36:15,049
becomes more massive you slow down its

753
00:36:26,319 --> 00:36:22,089
Einstein says that well the example

754
00:36:27,999 --> 00:36:26,329
Einstein gives is if you had a team of

755
00:36:29,829 --> 00:36:28,009
astronauts who were travelling in a

756
00:36:32,819 --> 00:36:29,839
spaceship at very close to the speed of

757
00:36:35,950 --> 00:36:32,829
light traveling away from the earth and

758
00:36:38,799 --> 00:36:35,960
then they returned back they would

759
00:36:40,539 --> 00:36:38,809
discover when they got here that all of

760
00:36:42,789 --> 00:36:40,549
their friends had aged much more than

761
00:36:45,099 --> 00:36:42,799
they had their friends might be old men

762
00:36:46,930 --> 00:36:45,109
and women now whereas for them only a

763
00:36:48,609 --> 00:36:46,940
few years had passed many years would

764
00:36:53,710 --> 00:36:48,619
have passed for the people on earth it's

765
00:36:55,569 --> 00:36:53,720
because when you accelerate a body it's

766
00:36:57,970 --> 00:36:55,579
the same thing as making it more massive

767
00:36:59,859 --> 00:36:57,980
and both things will cause this time

768
00:37:02,079 --> 00:36:59,869
frame to slow down a relative time frame

769
00:37:05,829 --> 00:37:02,089
to slow down time basically runs slower

770
00:37:10,390 --> 00:37:05,839
for a thing that's more massive so why

771
00:37:13,140 --> 00:37:10,400
would the dogon and you know the the

772
00:37:16,269 --> 00:37:13,150
shanti n' for that matter why would this

773
00:37:20,319 --> 00:37:16,279
information be encoded in allegory in

774
00:37:22,779 --> 00:37:20,329
you know diac trying to find the proper

775
00:37:25,180 --> 00:37:22,789
term in in the symbolism and iconography

776
00:37:27,819 --> 00:37:25,190
of a deity and and therefore you know if

777
00:37:29,890 --> 00:37:27,829
what you're saying is true then it's

778
00:37:31,299 --> 00:37:29,900
linked back to what the Dogon have said

779
00:37:33,970 --> 00:37:31,309
what you know I know that we've again

780
00:37:36,010 --> 00:37:33,980
talked at length on what

781
00:37:40,780 --> 00:37:36,020
the potential for material versus an

782
00:37:41,859 --> 00:37:40,790
immaterial world based on you know based

783
00:37:44,010 --> 00:37:41,869
on their their teaching in their

784
00:37:45,670 --> 00:37:44,020
cosmology but this seems to go into

785
00:37:48,070 --> 00:37:45,680
trying to be able to teach the

786
00:37:50,290 --> 00:37:48,080
fundamentals of the universe which we're

787
00:37:51,970 --> 00:37:50,300
starting to learn and have been you know

788
00:37:54,430 --> 00:37:51,980
researching for the last hundred or so

789
00:37:58,420 --> 00:37:54,440
years and trying to be able to you know

790
00:38:01,450 --> 00:37:58,430
produce spaceships with it or you know

791
00:38:02,800 --> 00:38:01,460
use it to peer across the galaxy at

792
00:38:06,970 --> 00:38:02,810
stars that are billions of light-years

793
00:38:10,060 --> 00:38:06,980
away what would what would a relatively

794
00:38:13,780 --> 00:38:10,070
you know nomadic people in the middle of

795
00:38:15,609 --> 00:38:13,790
of Africa or you know people in the

796
00:38:19,349 --> 00:38:15,619
middle of the subcontinent

797
00:38:21,870 --> 00:38:19,359
need with which is which is essentially

798
00:38:25,030 --> 00:38:21,880
you know Einstein's general relativity

799
00:38:27,220 --> 00:38:25,040
theorem right well I'll explain that

800
00:38:29,859 --> 00:38:27,230
there's actually there is a sensible

801
00:38:32,770 --> 00:38:29,869
rationale a sensible sensible motive for

802
00:38:35,380 --> 00:38:32,780
why that was done you sort of have to

803
00:38:37,000 --> 00:38:35,390
break it down into pieces I to give you

804
00:38:38,590 --> 00:38:37,010
the to give you the whole rationale

805
00:38:41,320 --> 00:38:38,600
right now I would be speaking at an

806
00:38:42,700 --> 00:38:41,330
entire book but let's start with the

807
00:38:46,030 --> 00:38:42,710
rationale of the people who are teaching

808
00:38:47,920 --> 00:38:46,040
this what they're teaching along with

809
00:38:51,640 --> 00:38:47,930
that they had they had two goals from

810
00:38:55,690 --> 00:38:51,650
what the comparative view tells us the

811
00:38:57,370 --> 00:38:55,700
first goal was to move humanity from a

812
00:39:00,190 --> 00:38:57,380
status of hunting and gathering to a

813
00:39:02,290 --> 00:39:00,200
status of farming pretty pretty doable

814
00:39:04,510 --> 00:39:02,300
goal so they were instructing they were

815
00:39:08,140 --> 00:39:04,520
teaching skills of Agriculture and

816
00:39:10,380 --> 00:39:08,150
skills of community how to organize a

817
00:39:13,630 --> 00:39:10,390
community how to live among other people

818
00:39:19,599 --> 00:39:13,640
okay now that instruction was tagged to

819
00:39:24,570 --> 00:39:19,609
a bunch of scientific concepts from the

820
00:39:27,670 --> 00:39:24,580
perspective of the teachers that science

821
00:39:31,710 --> 00:39:27,680
ok that sense was not given as theory it

822
00:39:34,950 --> 00:39:31,720
was given as fact this is

823
00:39:37,290 --> 00:39:34,960
factual information about how material

824
00:39:40,290 --> 00:39:37,300
creation happens and it was aimed at

825
00:39:43,290 --> 00:39:40,300
ultimately was aimed at a future

826
00:39:45,750 --> 00:39:43,300
audience that was scientifically enough

827
00:39:47,700 --> 00:39:45,760
minded directly that's what it was there

828
00:39:50,819 --> 00:39:47,710
is no point in having a hunter-gatherer

829
00:39:54,040 --> 00:39:50,829
know about

830
00:39:56,710 --> 00:39:54,050
the route dynamics of energy

831
00:39:58,840 --> 00:39:56,720
the target audience was essentially us a

832
00:40:00,850 --> 00:39:58,850
Korra culture like us one that had a

833
00:40:02,410 --> 00:40:00,860
sense of science enough to be able to

834
00:40:04,390 --> 00:40:02,420
recognize hey that looks like an atom

835
00:40:07,720 --> 00:40:04,400
hey that looks like an electron orbital

836
00:40:10,630 --> 00:40:07,730
hey that looks like a whatever the most

837
00:40:13,270 --> 00:40:10,640
essential of the Buddhist symbols called

838
00:40:15,610 --> 00:40:13,280
adequate symbols are precisely that and

839
00:40:19,000 --> 00:40:15,620
they're admittedly that they are images

840
00:40:21,250 --> 00:40:19,010
of things in nature that cannot lose

841
00:40:23,500 --> 00:40:21,260
their meaning because the meaning in

842
00:40:25,240 --> 00:40:23,510
here's and what their picturing is if

843
00:40:28,000 --> 00:40:25,250
you're picturing the image of an

844
00:40:28,720 --> 00:40:28,010
electron orbit those take specific

845
00:40:30,370 --> 00:40:28,730
shapes

846
00:40:32,350 --> 00:40:30,380
anybody who's scientifically minded is

847
00:40:34,210 --> 00:40:32,360
going to recognize that shape and say

848
00:40:36,490 --> 00:40:34,220
wow there's an electron orbit and they

849
00:40:37,840 --> 00:40:36,500
go do some research and discovered the

850
00:40:42,340 --> 00:40:37,850
Buddhists describe it just like an

851
00:40:45,700 --> 00:40:42,350
electron orbit this is science now so

852
00:40:48,790 --> 00:40:45,710
the motivation was to try to put this

853
00:40:53,800 --> 00:40:48,800
highly technical scientific information

854
00:40:56,770 --> 00:40:53,810
into a form that was so mnemonic so

855
00:40:59,200 --> 00:40:56,780
intuitive that all of the intervening

856
00:41:01,980 --> 00:40:59,210
generations between when it was taught

857
00:41:04,990 --> 00:41:01,990
and the generation that was the target

858
00:41:09,100 --> 00:41:05,000
audience would be able to keep it

859
00:41:10,630 --> 00:41:09,110
straight in other words someone was

860
00:41:13,330 --> 00:41:10,640
aiming this stuff with the hope that

861
00:41:16,090 --> 00:41:13,340
someone like me would see it recognize

862
00:41:18,100 --> 00:41:16,100
it and sort of deconstructed and realize

863
00:41:20,230 --> 00:41:18,110
here's here's what we're talking about

864
00:41:23,050 --> 00:41:20,240
and we're not just talking about it in

865
00:41:24,910 --> 00:41:23,060
an incidental way it's point after point

866
00:41:27,850 --> 00:41:24,920
after point after point not only that it

867
00:41:29,770 --> 00:41:27,860
tells us things in a way that is much

868
00:41:33,700 --> 00:41:29,780
more intuitively understandable than the

869
00:41:36,210 --> 00:41:33,710
way science teaches it and so Stephen

870
00:41:38,680 --> 00:41:36,220
Hawking's doesn't even attempt to

871
00:41:42,400 --> 00:41:38,690
explain how a wave turns it into a

872
00:41:43,900 --> 00:41:42,410
particle the Dogon explain it fairly

873
00:41:45,790 --> 00:41:43,910
easily once you understand what the root

874
00:41:48,070 --> 00:41:45,800
dynamics are it's completely

875
00:41:52,420 --> 00:41:48,080
understandable to me how a wave turns

876
00:41:53,950 --> 00:41:52,430
into a particle but to get it you have

877
00:41:56,020 --> 00:41:53,960
to look out of the way the Dogon look at

878
00:41:59,180 --> 00:41:56,030
it

879
00:42:00,830 --> 00:41:59,190
so from the perspective of the teachers

880
00:42:02,480 --> 00:42:00,840
the motive wasn't to have the

881
00:42:04,310 --> 00:42:02,490
intervening generations understand that

882
00:42:07,250 --> 00:42:04,320
the motive was to have somebody like us

883
00:42:10,400 --> 00:42:07,260
understand it as a matter of fact Thomas

884
00:42:13,090 --> 00:42:10,410
young the British polymath who tried to

885
00:42:17,390 --> 00:42:13,100
decipher the Egyptian hieroglyphs first

886
00:42:18,860 --> 00:42:17,400
was so convinced that there was more to

887
00:42:22,820 --> 00:42:18,870
the Egyptian hieroglyphs than just

888
00:42:24,050 --> 00:42:22,830
phonetics that he struggled with it for

889
00:42:25,370 --> 00:42:24,060
months and months and months and just

890
00:42:27,530 --> 00:42:25,380
and just didn't have enough of a

891
00:42:30,010 --> 00:42:27,540
perspective on the science to be able to

892
00:42:33,970 --> 00:42:30,020
sort out what they were talking about

893
00:42:38,090 --> 00:42:33,980
Shampoo Yan who took up the task after

894
00:42:40,100 --> 00:42:38,100
after Thomas dead delayed publishing his

895
00:42:41,060 --> 00:42:40,110
findings he had comparative text and he

896
00:42:43,550 --> 00:42:41,070
was able to do a word-for-word

897
00:42:45,620 --> 00:42:43,560
translation and knew he had the

898
00:42:47,390 --> 00:42:45,630
word-for-word translation right but he

899
00:42:50,810 --> 00:42:47,400
still held up publishing for a number of

900
00:42:52,400 --> 00:42:50,820
months because he had an abiding sense

901
00:42:56,660 --> 00:42:52,410
that there was more to this stuff than

902
00:43:00,020 --> 00:42:56,670
just now those word translations he was

903
00:43:03,160 --> 00:43:00,030
right he was just a century too soon to

904
00:43:05,840 --> 00:43:03,170
be able to have a clue about what it was

905
00:43:08,240 --> 00:43:05,850
and as you know we've we've discussed on

906
00:43:11,270 --> 00:43:08,250
this show and on many other shows at

907
00:43:15,650 --> 00:43:11,280
least when talking with the magical

908
00:43:17,450 --> 00:43:15,660
Egypt's film team which I know that

909
00:43:19,640 --> 00:43:17,460
you're you're part of that project as

910
00:43:21,980 --> 00:43:19,650
well men matter leadership to write

911
00:43:25,700 --> 00:43:21,990
which is available you can stream that

912
00:43:27,800 --> 00:43:25,710
right now on online as well I think it's

913
00:43:31,970 --> 00:43:27,810
very very quick story about my

914
00:43:33,530 --> 00:43:31,980
involvement with magical Egypt I had so

915
00:43:35,270 --> 00:43:33,540
published my first book and send out

916
00:43:36,470 --> 00:43:35,280
targeted emails to people I thought

917
00:43:38,630 --> 00:43:36,480
might have an interest in the book

918
00:43:41,240 --> 00:43:38,640
what's called hidden meanings it became

919
00:43:43,970 --> 00:43:41,250
the science of the Dogon so one of those

920
00:43:45,740 --> 00:43:43,980
emails happened to find John Anthony

921
00:43:48,460 --> 00:43:45,750
West in Egypt eyes he was conducting a

922
00:43:50,780 --> 00:43:48,470
tour and he wanted to read the book but

923
00:43:53,600 --> 00:43:50,790
I had only told him where he could buy

924
00:43:55,160 --> 00:43:53,610
the book he was the sort of guy who had

925
00:43:56,870 --> 00:43:55,170
authors lined up you know down the block

926
00:43:59,390 --> 00:43:56,880
and around the corner waiting to hand

927
00:44:01,880 --> 00:43:59,400
him books so he got back to the United

928
00:44:04,070 --> 00:44:01,890
States realized that he lived 45 minutes

929
00:44:05,360 --> 00:44:04,080
south of me and he ended up calling me

930
00:44:06,560 --> 00:44:05,370
one night on the phone and kept me on

931
00:44:08,359 --> 00:44:06,570
the phone long enough till I finally

932
00:44:10,670 --> 00:44:08,369
offered to send him a book

933
00:44:12,829 --> 00:44:10,680
well so then he invited me down to his

934
00:44:15,140 --> 00:44:12,839
house to meet him but didn't tell me

935
00:44:19,430 --> 00:44:15,150
that he was going to film the entire

936
00:44:21,170 --> 00:44:19,440
meeting and that episode the filming of

937
00:44:24,529 --> 00:44:21,180
that entire meeting became episode 8 of

938
00:44:28,009 --> 00:44:24,539
the first magical Egypt series and

939
00:44:30,109 --> 00:44:28,019
that's how I became connected to that I

940
00:44:33,440 --> 00:44:30,119
had no clue I was walking into a filmed

941
00:44:36,380 --> 00:44:33,450
interview yeah I've heard stories of

942
00:44:38,180 --> 00:44:36,390
John Anthony West having well that that

943
00:44:40,430 --> 00:44:38,190
kind of add is just ago it's gonna

944
00:44:42,049 --> 00:44:40,440
spring this on and see what happens you

945
00:44:44,959 --> 00:44:42,059
know and I I know that from from

946
00:44:46,579 --> 00:44:44,969
watching episode 8 which again you can

947
00:44:48,349 --> 00:44:46,589
find that pretty well anywhere but you

948
00:44:50,289 --> 00:44:48,359
can also purchased and you remastered HD

949
00:44:54,589 --> 00:44:50,299
version no they do not sponsor the show

950
00:44:56,150 --> 00:44:54,599
but I I love chance and Vinnie Singh you

951
00:44:59,839 --> 00:44:56,160
can go check it out because it looks

952
00:45:01,670 --> 00:44:59,849
fantastic and you know I know from that

953
00:45:03,289 --> 00:45:01,680
interview it kind of set me on on the

954
00:45:06,499 --> 00:45:03,299
path to getting to know your work and

955
00:45:10,309 --> 00:45:06,509
and you know the the similarities seem

956
00:45:12,469 --> 00:45:10,319
to be you know kind of mind-boggling

957
00:45:13,459 --> 00:45:12,479
because it's it's a it's a matter of it

958
00:45:16,370 --> 00:45:13,469
like fundamentally I trying to

959
00:45:18,859 --> 00:45:16,380
understand the nature of the world

960
00:45:20,150 --> 00:45:18,869
around us you know it's one thing to to

961
00:45:21,529 --> 00:45:20,160
know the path it's another thing to walk

962
00:45:24,140 --> 00:45:21,539
the path I know that's kind of a bad

963
00:45:29,120 --> 00:45:24,150
analogy in this case but hey I've

964
00:45:32,930 --> 00:45:29,130
studied as a layperson astrophysics

965
00:45:35,539 --> 00:45:32,940
physics chemistry you know astronomy and

966
00:45:38,839 --> 00:45:35,549
you know yes like a you know string

967
00:45:40,640 --> 00:45:38,849
theory and quantum you know quantum

968
00:45:45,170 --> 00:45:40,650
mechanics is something that's very very

969
00:45:46,430 --> 00:45:45,180
interesting to me and to there seems to

970
00:45:49,549 --> 00:45:46,440
be an in the scientific community which

971
00:45:52,940 --> 00:45:49,559
I I do greatly respect that there are

972
00:45:54,079 --> 00:45:52,950
two modes of teaching which is the long

973
00:45:55,459 --> 00:45:54,089
drawn out well you need to be able to

974
00:45:57,049 --> 00:45:55,469
understand the fundamentals and you know

975
00:45:59,019 --> 00:45:57,059
there's a very very complicated process

976
00:46:02,180 --> 00:45:59,029
there's no attempt to try and

977
00:46:06,680 --> 00:46:02,190
necessarily talk to people like you and

978
00:46:08,239 --> 00:46:06,690
me who can can get it as it were with

979
00:46:10,940 --> 00:46:08,249
just a little bit of nudging and you

980
00:46:12,259 --> 00:46:10,950
know kind of explore I should say a

981
00:46:15,529 --> 00:46:12,269
difference in explaining the situation

982
00:46:16,969 --> 00:46:15,539
and then there is that mess you're being

983
00:46:18,140 --> 00:46:16,979
able to are Canada like well you're

984
00:46:19,339 --> 00:46:18,150
surely shortcut it like you don't take

985
00:46:21,140 --> 00:46:19,349
out the fluff and just like you know

986
00:46:21,740 --> 00:46:21,150
give give me the understand like give me

987
00:46:29,090 --> 00:46:21,750
the

988
00:46:34,400 --> 00:46:29,100
plain and simple you know I'm trying

989
00:46:38,750 --> 00:46:34,410
trying to not be demeaning beer but very

990
00:46:40,460 --> 00:46:38,760
flashy pictures on TV to basically try

991
00:46:42,290 --> 00:46:40,470
and explain a very complicated subject

992
00:46:43,610 --> 00:46:42,300
but you're it's like they're talking to

993
00:46:45,680 --> 00:46:43,620
five-year-olds if it feels kind of

994
00:46:47,870 --> 00:46:45,690
demeaning and it's like no I I can I can

995
00:46:52,820 --> 00:46:47,880
sit back and you know let's say listen

996
00:46:54,200 --> 00:46:52,830
to you know Leonard Susskind lecture you

997
00:46:56,420 --> 00:46:54,210
know that he gives to university

998
00:46:57,740 --> 00:46:56,430
students I don't understand about 99% of

999
00:46:58,490 --> 00:46:57,750
everything that he says because you know

1000
00:46:59,840 --> 00:46:58,500
you're basically learning like you

1001
00:47:03,650 --> 00:46:59,850
weren't at school but you have to you

1002
00:47:05,810 --> 00:47:03,660
have to consume be a 1.5 to 3 hours

1003
00:47:07,820 --> 00:47:05,820
times like a you know 100 classes to

1004
00:47:09,890 --> 00:47:07,830
able to get a deeper understanding where

1005
00:47:12,980 --> 00:47:09,900
it's like okay well how does a wave turn

1006
00:47:15,080 --> 00:47:12,990
into a particle well okay what can you

1007
00:47:17,590 --> 00:47:15,090
explain that process of nobody is really

1008
00:47:20,960 --> 00:47:17,600
doing that it kind of frustrates me

1009
00:47:22,820 --> 00:47:20,970
right I mean you can say that somebody

1010
00:47:24,470 --> 00:47:22,830
if you know what their frame of

1011
00:47:26,450 --> 00:47:24,480
reference is you can say to somebody

1012
00:47:30,590 --> 00:47:26,460
that angular momentum is the dynamic of

1013
00:47:32,180 --> 00:47:30,600
a spinning top now if they have that

1014
00:47:35,260 --> 00:47:32,190
frame of reference now they have the

1015
00:47:37,970 --> 00:47:35,270
entire concept in one in one statement

1016
00:47:41,180 --> 00:47:37,980
because they know what a spinning top is

1017
00:47:44,990 --> 00:47:41,190
if you say to them these these two

1018
00:47:47,390 --> 00:47:45,000
processes are parallel then they may not

1019
00:47:50,150 --> 00:47:47,400
know the nuances of difference but they

1020
00:47:53,390 --> 00:47:50,160
have their arms around the concept with

1021
00:47:56,000 --> 00:47:53,400
that one image well one of the goals of

1022
00:47:57,680 --> 00:47:56,010
the ancient tradition was they were okay

1023
00:47:58,880 --> 00:47:57,690
they were aiming this information at an

1024
00:48:00,230 --> 00:47:58,890
audience that they didn't know what

1025
00:48:02,990 --> 00:48:00,240
their frame of reference was going to be

1026
00:48:06,650 --> 00:48:03,000
and so how do you come up with that

1027
00:48:08,900 --> 00:48:06,660
intuitive reference for somebody who you

1028
00:48:11,600 --> 00:48:08,910
don't know what the reference is and so

1029
00:48:15,080 --> 00:48:11,610
what the symbolic system does is it

1030
00:48:20,270 --> 00:48:15,090
frames the same idea in multiple

1031
00:48:21,590 --> 00:48:20,280
metaphors out of the hope is from what I

1032
00:48:24,230 --> 00:48:21,600
can see it looks like it was the hope

1033
00:48:25,910 --> 00:48:24,240
that one of those multiple metaphors was

1034
00:48:28,190 --> 00:48:25,920
going to resonate with the audience that

1035
00:48:30,290 --> 00:48:28,200
was it was aimed at if they don't get

1036
00:48:32,450 --> 00:48:30,300
that this relates to how a plant grows

1037
00:48:34,100 --> 00:48:32,460
maybe they'll relate they'll get that it

1038
00:48:35,660 --> 00:48:34,110
relates to how the animal kingdom works

1039
00:48:38,120 --> 00:48:35,670
or maybe they'll get

1040
00:48:41,539 --> 00:48:38,130
it relates to the process in which you

1041
00:48:43,700 --> 00:48:41,549
build a constructor structure so they

1042
00:48:45,920 --> 00:48:43,710
pick these multiple metaphors and say

1043
00:48:48,289 --> 00:48:45,930
look these men are these metaphors are

1044
00:48:50,329 --> 00:48:48,299
parallel to each other they're parallel

1045
00:48:52,400 --> 00:48:50,339
to a process I want you to understand if

1046
00:48:54,020 --> 00:48:52,410
you understand any one of these things

1047
00:48:56,480 --> 00:48:54,030
you understand the process I'm trying to

1048
00:48:58,760 --> 00:48:56,490
tell you and that Orient's you and now

1049
00:49:00,589 --> 00:48:58,770
we're in a position to evaluate the

1050
00:49:02,510 --> 00:49:00,599
thing they're telling it and you know

1051
00:49:03,680 --> 00:49:02,520
that goes to the one of my favorite

1052
00:49:05,720 --> 00:49:03,690
metaphor is herding cats

1053
00:49:09,890 --> 00:49:05,730
what's you know you're trying to be able

1054
00:49:11,539 --> 00:49:09,900
to corral a very large force in a

1055
00:49:13,910 --> 00:49:11,549
certain direction and it you know if

1056
00:49:16,010 --> 00:49:13,920
anybody knows trying to get your cat to

1057
00:49:18,589 --> 00:49:16,020
do anything they're either just gonna

1058
00:49:20,359 --> 00:49:18,599
look at you funny and just go like or

1059
00:49:21,740 --> 00:49:20,369
ask for treatment or they're gonna run

1060
00:49:23,359 --> 00:49:21,750
away or they're gonna go in the exact

1061
00:49:26,839 --> 00:49:23,369
opposite direction so that that's if a

1062
00:49:28,490 --> 00:49:26,849
concept is not foreign you're but you're

1063
00:49:30,319 --> 00:49:28,500
taking terms and putting it into as you

1064
00:49:32,150 --> 00:49:30,329
said things that people can can

1065
00:49:34,099 --> 00:49:32,160
understand relate to and write because

1066
00:49:36,140 --> 00:49:34,109
if you had to add to describe that kind

1067
00:49:37,819 --> 00:49:36,150
of chaos and word and see if you go on

1068
00:49:39,650 --> 00:49:37,829
pages and pages and the person might not

1069
00:49:42,680 --> 00:49:39,660
be getting what you're really talking

1070
00:49:44,630 --> 00:49:42,690
about or they might fall asleep race its

1071
00:49:48,460 --> 00:49:44,640
certain certain I'm gonna say like I

1072
00:49:50,839 --> 00:49:48,470
will listen to podcasts on on

1073
00:49:53,059 --> 00:49:50,849
astrophysics or strong near future ISM

1074
00:49:55,370 --> 00:49:53,069
and it's just like the nice deep voice

1075
00:49:56,599 --> 00:49:55,380
and just a calm demeanor just kind of

1076
00:49:57,740 --> 00:49:56,609
lulls me to sleep and I try and learn

1077
00:50:00,950 --> 00:49:57,750
while I'm sleeping but I get about five

1078
00:50:04,160 --> 00:50:00,960
minutes in and I'm you know I'm out

1079
00:50:05,000 --> 00:50:04,170
whereas this this type of exchange it's

1080
00:50:06,980 --> 00:50:05,010
very similar to the way that the

1081
00:50:08,329 --> 00:50:06,990
information was was transmitted back

1082
00:50:09,799 --> 00:50:08,339
then where it was person-to-person and

1083
00:50:12,230 --> 00:50:09,809
saying well hey this is what I'm trying

1084
00:50:14,059 --> 00:50:12,240
to teach you but you know this is the

1085
00:50:16,120 --> 00:50:14,069
you know this is how you can relate to

1086
00:50:19,160 --> 00:50:16,130
it based on your frame of reference and

1087
00:50:21,260 --> 00:50:19,170
if we're talking thousands of years of

1088
00:50:24,740 --> 00:50:21,270
of transmission and you would mention

1089
00:50:27,319 --> 00:50:24,750
the the Shakti cults in it wasn't on the

1090
00:50:29,660 --> 00:50:27,329
east coast or the west coast they're on

1091
00:50:32,030 --> 00:50:29,670
the east coast of India okay so if these

1092
00:50:35,990 --> 00:50:32,040
cults had brought this information Ford

1093
00:50:38,059 --> 00:50:36,000
do you go into any length about how the

1094
00:50:41,620 --> 00:50:38,069
information was transferred how it was

1095
00:50:44,059 --> 00:50:41,630
brought along from gobekli tepe from I

1096
00:50:45,950 --> 00:50:44,069
do to a certain extent in the book point

1097
00:50:49,370 --> 00:50:45,960
of origin I talked about the Shakti cult

1098
00:50:50,870 --> 00:50:49,380
and in what forms they brought up for

1099
00:50:54,289 --> 00:50:50,880
and how we can tell it was brought

1100
00:50:56,059 --> 00:50:54,299
forward things get tricky before 3,000

1101
00:51:00,170 --> 00:50:56,069
BC because you don't have written texts

1102
00:51:02,029 --> 00:51:00,180
to rely on but you do have some dynamics

1103
00:51:04,489 --> 00:51:02,039
of language that are really helpful one

1104
00:51:06,460 --> 00:51:04,499
is that the further back in time you go

1105
00:51:10,130 --> 00:51:06,470
from there the more common the words are

1106
00:51:14,479 --> 00:51:10,140
so the ad the other effect of language

1107
00:51:16,489 --> 00:51:14,489
is that significant words tend to stay

1108
00:51:20,059 --> 00:51:16,499
within a language for very very long

1109
00:51:23,509 --> 00:51:20,069
periods of time so what that means is

1110
00:51:25,190 --> 00:51:23,519
that ancient Turkish words were

1111
00:51:27,380 --> 00:51:25,200
pronounced and had pretty much the same

1112
00:51:30,920 --> 00:51:27,390
meanings as ancient Egyptian words do

1113
00:51:33,529 --> 00:51:30,930
and many of those words are still in the

1114
00:51:34,910 --> 00:51:33,539
Turkish language so if I want to

1115
00:51:36,890 --> 00:51:34,920
understand the concept from ancient

1116
00:51:39,769 --> 00:51:36,900
Turkey I can use a modern Turkish

1117
00:51:42,710 --> 00:51:39,779
dictionary and compare it to an ancient

1118
00:51:44,029 --> 00:51:42,720
Egyptian dictionary and where I find

1119
00:51:46,219 --> 00:51:44,039
points of an hour overlap

1120
00:51:48,140 --> 00:51:46,229
I've likely triangulated on what the

1121
00:51:50,150 --> 00:51:48,150
ancient concept was even though I didn't

1122
00:51:54,109 --> 00:51:50,160
don't have an ancient Turkish dictionary

1123
00:51:56,029 --> 00:51:54,119
from 9000 BC so it's it's techniques

1124
00:52:00,019 --> 00:51:56,039
like that being able to infer things

1125
00:52:02,209 --> 00:52:00,029
find ways of inferring things that we we

1126
00:52:04,370 --> 00:52:02,219
don't have an explicit reference for but

1127
00:52:08,239 --> 00:52:04,380
we can triangulate on in a way that is

1128
00:52:09,769 --> 00:52:08,249
absolutely not to go with now there are

1129
00:52:12,259 --> 00:52:09,779
other individuals no no there there will

1130
00:52:14,299 --> 00:52:12,269
be doubters there's always push back and

1131
00:52:15,799 --> 00:52:14,309
I'm not trying to get negative but again

1132
00:52:19,759 --> 00:52:15,809
I do have to do my due diligence and

1133
00:52:20,420 --> 00:52:19,769
sure being what's the term um that's

1134
00:52:22,099 --> 00:52:20,430
kept me correct

1135
00:52:23,989 --> 00:52:22,109
that's gross skeptical like you know I I

1136
00:52:27,140 --> 00:52:23,999
have to I have to be fair I have to be

1137
00:52:28,789 --> 00:52:27,150
fair so there there will be people who

1138
00:52:30,259 --> 00:52:28,799
sent stream academic community would be

1139
00:52:34,099 --> 00:52:30,269
able to say okay well what credible

1140
00:52:36,170 --> 00:52:34,109
evidence do you have that this is you

1141
00:52:39,229 --> 00:52:36,180
know that there is a link what you know

1142
00:52:42,289 --> 00:52:39,239
is is there a linguistic map or

1143
00:52:44,569 --> 00:52:42,299
evolution that you can point to or that

1144
00:52:46,459 --> 00:52:44,579
you can lay out to somebody who has this

1145
00:52:48,079 --> 00:52:46,469
type of push back and say well no you

1146
00:52:50,660 --> 00:52:48,089
know here is a link from let's say like

1147
00:52:57,440 --> 00:52:50,670
ancient you know it Dogon to Egyptian to

1148
00:53:06,059 --> 00:53:03,420
yes and no okay if I'm a linguist most

1149
00:53:07,950 --> 00:53:06,069
linguists only allow a relationship

1150
00:53:10,680 --> 00:53:07,960
between words a claim of a relationship

1151
00:53:12,210 --> 00:53:10,690
between words if you can trace a clear

1152
00:53:15,690 --> 00:53:12,220
etymology between the two words in the

1153
00:53:16,829 --> 00:53:15,700
two languages it started here it ended

1154
00:53:18,420 --> 00:53:16,839
up there passed through these

1155
00:53:20,370 --> 00:53:18,430
modifications here's how this word

1156
00:53:23,359 --> 00:53:20,380
became that word they're related

1157
00:53:26,460 --> 00:53:23,369
now I accept that they're related words

1158
00:53:30,059 --> 00:53:26,470
dealing with comparative cosmology it's

1159
00:53:34,349 --> 00:53:30,069
a different ballgame innate

1160
00:53:36,059 --> 00:53:34,359
these ancient words don't carry a single

1161
00:53:39,180 --> 00:53:36,069
meaning they carry a cluster of meanings

1162
00:53:41,670 --> 00:53:39,190
and those meanings are logically

1163
00:53:44,819 --> 00:53:41,680
disconnected from each other in such a

1164
00:53:46,380 --> 00:53:44,829
way that I can't reasonably guess the

1165
00:53:50,190 --> 00:53:46,390
secondary meanings by knowing the first

1166
00:53:51,870 --> 00:53:50,200
me but the clusters hold true from

1167
00:53:54,750 --> 00:53:51,880
culture to culture from language to

1168
00:53:57,960 --> 00:53:54,760
language and the clusters flow with the

1169
00:54:00,599 --> 00:53:57,970
concepts not with the phonetics and so

1170
00:54:03,870 --> 00:54:00,609
when I take two very different languages

1171
00:54:06,089 --> 00:54:03,880
like the Egyptian hieroglyphic language

1172
00:54:08,460 --> 00:54:06,099
of the Dogon language and compare that

1173
00:54:10,859 --> 00:54:08,470
to sand sand square which outwardly is

1174
00:54:13,769 --> 00:54:10,869
very different there's no there aren't

1175
00:54:17,490 --> 00:54:13,779
obvious points of overlap between those

1176
00:54:19,559 --> 00:54:17,500
three languages I can point to a concept

1177
00:54:22,079 --> 00:54:19,569
that is one of these clustered concepts

1178
00:54:23,940 --> 00:54:22,089
and demonstrate that it's the same the

1179
00:54:26,150 --> 00:54:23,950
same cluster existed in Sanskrit that

1180
00:54:29,309 --> 00:54:26,160
exists in the Dogon language

1181
00:54:32,490 --> 00:54:29,319
that can't happen randomly when you have

1182
00:54:34,710 --> 00:54:32,500
half a dozen logically disconnected

1183
00:54:37,470 --> 00:54:34,720
elements associated with each other

1184
00:54:39,539 --> 00:54:37,480
you've got to match a linguist wouldn't

1185
00:54:41,490 --> 00:54:39,549
agree that it was a match but any

1186
00:54:45,059 --> 00:54:41,500
reasonable thinking person would I'll

1187
00:54:46,910 --> 00:54:45,069
give you an example in Dogon culture you

1188
00:54:50,059 --> 00:54:46,920
have

1189
00:54:53,690 --> 00:54:50,069
a creator god named amma actually

1190
00:54:56,390 --> 00:54:53,700
originally with symbolic reversals the

1191
00:54:58,039 --> 00:54:56,400
signs art was a goddess gamma is the

1192
00:55:00,910 --> 00:54:58,049
affectionate name the ganesh used to

1193
00:55:08,359 --> 00:55:04,930
amma is the Dogon hidden god or goddess

1194
00:55:12,620 --> 00:55:08,369
the word also means to grasp or to hold

1195
00:55:15,980 --> 00:55:12,630
firm or to establish he go to ancient

1196
00:55:19,460 --> 00:55:15,990
Egypt you have a men who has many of the

1197
00:55:21,859 --> 00:55:19,470
same icons as Amma holds the same

1198
00:55:24,019 --> 00:55:21,869
relationship in the overall cosmology to

1199
00:55:27,039 --> 00:55:24,029
the other deities that Amma has two

1200
00:55:29,359 --> 00:55:27,049
characters in Dogon mythology is

1201
00:55:32,480 --> 00:55:29,369
attributed with similar actions as Amma

1202
00:55:35,839 --> 00:55:32,490
and Dogon mythology and the name also

1203
00:55:38,019 --> 00:55:35,849
means to be hidden it means to grasp it

1204
00:55:41,599 --> 00:55:38,029
means to hold for a means to establish

1205
00:55:45,049 --> 00:55:41,609
now from my standpoint as a causal

1206
00:55:47,210 --> 00:55:45,059
comparative researcher I have an ample

1207
00:55:49,750 --> 00:55:47,220
cluster of elements there to insist that

1208
00:55:53,450 --> 00:55:49,760
there those two things are related a

1209
00:55:58,099 --> 00:55:53,460
linguist would say they're not but I say

1210
00:56:00,410 --> 00:55:58,109
you're really gonna tell me that I can

1211
00:56:02,089 --> 00:56:00,420
positively identify that these two gods

1212
00:56:03,799 --> 00:56:02,099
hold the same role in the sitting in

1213
00:56:06,680 --> 00:56:03,809
parallel cosmology is doing the same

1214
00:56:10,190 --> 00:56:06,690
thing in relation to the same phonetics

1215
00:56:12,109 --> 00:56:10,200
all the icons match all of their actions

1216
00:56:14,150 --> 00:56:12,119
match but you're going to insist that

1217
00:56:17,180 --> 00:56:14,160
the names aren't related and I say

1218
00:56:20,269 --> 00:56:17,190
that's not that no reasonable

1219
00:56:21,950 --> 00:56:20,279
person will accept that the same cluster

1220
00:56:24,559 --> 00:56:21,960
that allows me to correlate the deities

1221
00:56:26,900 --> 00:56:24,569
allows me to correlate the words and a

1222
00:56:30,529 --> 00:56:26,910
linguist won't like that because it's

1223
00:56:32,210 --> 00:56:30,539
not according to their rules no and I

1224
00:56:34,130 --> 00:56:32,220
can understand that coming from a

1225
00:56:36,349 --> 00:56:34,140
linguistic family and being in a

1226
00:56:38,960 --> 00:56:36,359
linguistic profession you know the I can

1227
00:56:40,309 --> 00:56:38,970
understand that that perspective and you

1228
00:56:42,470 --> 00:56:40,319
know I have a question actually from Lee

1229
00:56:44,390 --> 00:56:42,480
which may be touching a little bit far

1230
00:56:46,940 --> 00:56:44,400
outside of what we normally know that

1231
00:56:48,799 --> 00:56:46,950
the subject matter here but hey this is

1232
00:56:50,779 --> 00:56:48,809
what we do here on the show so why not

1233
00:56:52,789 --> 00:56:50,789
he's asking if there are any

1234
00:56:56,269 --> 00:56:52,799
similarities with the Inca or Aztec

1235
00:56:59,329 --> 00:56:56,279
pathologies I'm not sure if he means you

1236
00:57:00,900 --> 00:56:59,339
know in that well obviously between Inca

1237
00:57:02,819 --> 00:57:00,910
nastic there are similarities but

1238
00:57:06,269 --> 00:57:02,829
you know are there any to the subject

1239
00:57:10,380 --> 00:57:06,279
that we're talking to you tonight okay I

1240
00:57:12,180 --> 00:57:10,390
haven't studied Inca and Aztec symbolism

1241
00:57:14,670 --> 00:57:12,190
to the depth that I've studied some

1242
00:57:17,599 --> 00:57:14,680
other cultures but I have seen it enough

1243
00:57:19,559 --> 00:57:17,609
to understand that they're related and

1244
00:57:21,960 --> 00:57:19,569
the way I can make that kind of a

1245
00:57:24,539 --> 00:57:21,970
positive statement is with any culture

1246
00:57:30,690 --> 00:57:24,549
okay that the the cosmology rests on

1247
00:57:33,599 --> 00:57:30,700
certain signature elements I can give

1248
00:57:35,789 --> 00:57:33,609
you the examples of that circumcision is

1249
00:57:37,710 --> 00:57:35,799
one of the signatures of the tradition

1250
00:57:39,990 --> 00:57:37,720
I'm pursuing any culture that

1251
00:57:42,690 --> 00:57:40,000
circumsized I know immediately was

1252
00:57:45,930 --> 00:57:42,700
probably influenced by the system I'm

1253
00:57:47,759 --> 00:57:45,940
talking about any culture that measured

1254
00:57:49,790 --> 00:57:47,769
with cubits is likely to be connected to

1255
00:57:52,130 --> 00:57:49,800
the same system

1256
00:57:55,430 --> 00:57:52,140
any culture that imagines that there's

1257
00:57:58,090 --> 00:57:55,440
oh we're their deities flipped from

1258
00:58:00,980 --> 00:57:58,100
matriarchal from goddesses to gods

1259
00:58:02,510 --> 00:58:00,990
sometime after 3,000 BC is likely

1260
00:58:05,540 --> 00:58:02,520
related to the same tradition and that's

1261
00:58:06,830 --> 00:58:05,550
a function of the the tradition I'm

1262
00:58:08,420 --> 00:58:06,840
talking about there are symbolic

1263
00:58:12,590 --> 00:58:08,430
reversals midway through the tradition

1264
00:58:19,150 --> 00:58:12,600
that occur for a reason we have some

1265
00:58:23,300 --> 00:58:21,500
parallel development that any culture

1266
00:58:24,650 --> 00:58:23,310
that the builds out of stone is

1267
00:58:26,060 --> 00:58:24,660
eventually going to figure out to stack

1268
00:58:29,480 --> 00:58:26,070
them up into a pyramid there are only so

1269
00:58:32,690 --> 00:58:29,490
many things you can do with stone my

1270
00:58:34,970 --> 00:58:32,700
answer to that is yes the structures

1271
00:58:36,860 --> 00:58:34,980
could be a example of parallel

1272
00:58:38,480 --> 00:58:36,870
development but there is calm very

1273
00:58:40,160 --> 00:58:38,490
complicated symbolism that goes along

1274
00:58:41,450 --> 00:58:40,170
with the structures that doesn't

1275
00:58:44,990 --> 00:58:41,460
automatically accrue from the choice to

1276
00:58:47,150 --> 00:58:45,000
sack up stones and that symbolism is the

1277
00:58:49,160 --> 00:58:47,160
kind of linkage that argues there's got

1278
00:58:54,740 --> 00:58:49,170
to be a connection back to the same same

1279
00:58:56,660 --> 00:58:54,750
source so I know from Aztec and Incas I

1280
00:58:57,680 --> 00:58:56,670
know enough about them to be able to say

1281
00:58:59,150 --> 00:58:57,690
with confidence that they were

1282
00:59:01,340 --> 00:58:59,160
absolutely influenced by the same

1283
00:59:02,870 --> 00:59:01,350
tradition I just haven't explored it far

1284
00:59:05,210 --> 00:59:02,880
enough to be able to give you chapter

1285
00:59:06,560 --> 00:59:05,220
and verse as to why that has to be and

1286
00:59:08,930 --> 00:59:06,570
obviously for that there may be a book

1287
00:59:10,430 --> 00:59:08,940
up coming at some point to the future

1288
00:59:12,080 --> 00:59:10,440
about that and I'm sure that if even

1289
00:59:14,930 --> 00:59:12,090
when that comes you'll hear about it

1290
00:59:16,550 --> 00:59:14,940
here and leered it's it's a top the hour

1291
00:59:19,160 --> 00:59:16,560
and I know that with with the new show

1292
00:59:21,710 --> 00:59:19,170
format and you know being a busy parent

1293
00:59:26,660 --> 00:59:21,720
myself with tons of responsibilities

1294
00:59:28,520 --> 00:59:26,670
like you know laundry and diapers we

1295
00:59:29,540 --> 00:59:28,530
don't do the three and a half hour shows

1296
00:59:32,480 --> 00:59:29,550
like we used to

1297
00:59:34,640 --> 00:59:32,490
way back in the day so I'd like to at

1298
00:59:35,840 --> 00:59:34,650
least close it with allowing you the

1299
00:59:38,930 --> 00:59:35,850
opportunity to be able to tell the

1300
00:59:40,250 --> 00:59:38,940
people at home or on whatever spaceship

1301
00:59:42,260 --> 00:59:40,260
or you know if you're listening in the

1302
00:59:44,180 --> 00:59:42,270
car or I'd keep your eye on the road

1303
00:59:46,390 --> 00:59:44,190
keep your eyes not on the phone you're

1304
00:59:51,050 --> 00:59:46,400
on the road where can they get the book

1305
00:59:53,480 --> 00:59:51,060
how much is it in American rubles and is

1306
00:59:56,540 --> 00:59:53,490
it available in hardcover digital copy

1307
00:59:58,490 --> 00:59:56,550
what what's the deal well this book is

1308
01:00:02,120 --> 00:59:58,500
self-published what I've been doing the

1309
01:00:03,979 --> 01:00:02,130
past couple of years is because the

1310
01:00:06,339 --> 01:00:03,989
the lead time is so long for the

1311
01:00:08,719 --> 01:00:06,349
traditionally public published books and

1312
01:00:11,420 --> 01:00:08,729
I have so much material that I'm working

1313
01:00:13,999 --> 01:00:11,430
with because I can finish writing a

1314
01:00:15,589 --> 01:00:14,009
second book and sell publish it you know

1315
01:00:17,210 --> 01:00:15,599
six months or more before the

1316
01:00:18,920 --> 01:00:17,220
traditionally published book comes out

1317
01:00:21,529 --> 01:00:18,930
and so that's what I've been doing is

1318
01:00:23,120 --> 01:00:21,539
I've been traditionally publishing one

1319
01:00:25,430 --> 01:00:23,130
and then self-publishing a second one

1320
01:00:28,299 --> 01:00:25,440
the same year so this is self-published

1321
01:00:31,519 --> 01:00:28,309
it's available through any of the Amazon

1322
01:00:34,130 --> 01:00:31,529
sites worldwide right now

1323
01:00:37,099 --> 01:00:34,140
it can be ordered through any of the any

1324
01:00:38,599 --> 01:00:37,109
any bookstore it's available to any of

1325
01:00:41,569 --> 01:00:38,609
the retail outlets if they wanted to

1326
01:00:43,700 --> 01:00:41,579
stock it they could question is whether

1327
01:00:45,890 --> 01:00:43,710
they I have enough awareness that the

1328
01:00:47,450 --> 01:00:45,900
books out to do that but you could walk

1329
01:00:50,930 --> 01:00:47,460
into a Barnes & Noble and order it and

1330
01:00:54,829 --> 01:00:50,940
they could get it for you the H wheel

1331
01:00:58,029 --> 01:00:54,839
it's it's 1595 on Amazon I'm not sure

1332
01:01:00,799 --> 01:00:58,039
what that translates to in euros but

1333
01:01:02,839 --> 01:01:00,809
euros probably run like 12 euros and

1334
01:01:05,329 --> 01:01:02,849
Canadian dollars your firstborn and

1335
01:01:07,999 --> 01:01:05,339
immortal soul because the exchange rate

1336
01:01:10,729 --> 01:01:08,009
sucks still so you know and I have no

1337
01:01:13,039 --> 01:01:10,739
idea what it is in centigrade well yeah

1338
01:01:13,400 --> 01:01:13,049
it's it's it's hot layered it's hot up

1339
01:01:15,499 --> 01:01:13,410
here

1340
01:01:20,029 --> 01:01:15,509
for 40 of what is it like 40 degrees

1341
01:01:21,739 --> 01:01:20,039
it's a 120 125 even it don't matter

1342
01:01:23,209 --> 01:01:21,749
that's well we're gonna go to a hundred

1343
01:01:25,249 --> 01:01:23,219
and sixty degree heat index down here

1344
01:01:27,620 --> 01:01:25,259
tomorrow oh good luck with that

1345
01:01:29,059 --> 01:01:27,630
kakie keep jumping you know get your

1346
01:01:30,440 --> 01:01:29,069
pool out get the beer with a little

1347
01:01:32,059 --> 01:01:30,450
kiddie pool and put your feet in there

1348
01:01:37,640 --> 01:01:32,069
and just you know way for the people as

1349
01:01:38,839 --> 01:01:37,650
they drive by alright so this is this is

1350
01:01:40,579 --> 01:01:38,849
the end of the show this is the end of

1351
01:01:44,630 --> 01:01:40,589
the show go go check out the patreon

1352
01:01:47,900 --> 01:01:44,640
page it is up we're still working on if

1353
01:01:50,420 --> 01:01:47,910
you've been following the lunch hangouts

1354
01:01:53,719 --> 01:01:50,430
there's going to be a series of them and

1355
01:01:55,670 --> 01:01:53,729
I if you like to go to sleep during

1356
01:01:58,729 --> 01:01:55,680
lunch time come watch me build a website

1357
01:02:00,890 --> 01:01:58,739
I think I can guarantee you I am

1358
01:02:03,319 --> 01:02:00,900
considerably less entertaining on those

1359
01:02:09,150 --> 01:02:03,329
hangouts but you learn a lot especially

1360
01:02:12,450 --> 01:02:09,160
about WordPress and CSS programming

1361
01:02:15,750 --> 01:02:12,460
it's good times people so you get it you

1362
01:02:17,670 --> 01:02:15,760
get in on those so yes I'm gonna play

1363
01:02:19,260 --> 01:02:17,680
the outro music let's see if the actual

1364
01:02:20,330 --> 01:02:19,270
otra music plays how about that that's

1365
01:02:26,010 --> 01:02:20,340
good

1366
01:02:29,280 --> 01:02:26,020
does he suspect in our are my friend Abe

1367
01:02:32,100 --> 01:02:29,290
Van Damme who wrote or the remix for our

1368
01:02:34,500 --> 01:02:32,110
outro music there we go

1369
01:02:35,880 --> 01:02:34,510
he has a new L or EP coming out soon

1370
01:02:37,740 --> 01:02:35,890
whatever that drops that let you guys

1371
01:02:41,310 --> 01:02:37,750
know about it cuz support your local

1372
01:02:43,140 --> 01:02:41,320
artists yeah and you know go go to the

1373
01:02:45,090 --> 01:02:43,150
show don't ask for guest list pay the

1374
01:02:47,070 --> 01:02:45,100
cover charge because chances are the

1375
01:02:50,460 --> 01:02:47,080
beer tickets are coming out of his pay

1376
01:02:54,270 --> 01:02:50,470
so just do your thing people alright

1377
01:02:56,610 --> 01:02:54,280
ladies and gentlemen I am the host of

1378
01:02:58,830 --> 01:02:56,620
denna floor we are back yet again and

1379
01:03:00,180 --> 01:02:58,840
hopefully next week I will not be

1380
01:03:03,090 --> 01:03:00,190
delayed Laird thank you very much for

1381
01:03:05,850 --> 01:03:03,100
this makeup time it's it's much

1382
01:03:08,850 --> 01:03:05,860
appreciated you are a gentleman and a

1383
01:03:12,210 --> 01:03:08,860
scholar as always thank you very much

1384
01:03:13,800 --> 01:03:12,220
alright and stay on the line so I can

1385
01:03:16,070 --> 01:03:13,810
give you the the good handshake goodbye

1386
01:03:22,790 --> 01:03:16,080
off camera but to all of you out there

1387
01:03:29,590 --> 01:03:26,420
screenshare split-screen outro outro